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	<title>Comments on: Come Out, Come Out wherever you are!</title>
	<atom:link href="http://glorifiedevil.blog.friendster.com/2005/08/come-out-come-out-wherever-you-are/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://glorifiedevil.blog.friendster.com/2005/08/come-out-come-out-wherever-you-are/</link>
	<description>SAB MAYA HAI: Reality is nothing but perception</description>
	<pubDate>Sat, 26 Dec 2009 21:35:57 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Amlan</title>
		<link>http://glorifiedevil.blog.friendster.com/2005/08/come-out-come-out-wherever-you-are/#comment-22</link>
		<dc:creator>Amlan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 Sep 2005 01:14:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://glorifiedevil.blog.friendster.com/2005/08/come-out-come-out-wherever-you-are/#comment-22</guid>
		<description>i see your point...
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>i see your point&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Ayush</title>
		<link>http://glorifiedevil.blog.friendster.com/2005/08/come-out-come-out-wherever-you-are/#comment-21</link>
		<dc:creator>Ayush</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 05 Sep 2005 21:19:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://glorifiedevil.blog.friendster.com/2005/08/come-out-come-out-wherever-you-are/#comment-21</guid>
		<description>Hey Amlan, I agree with the spirit of what you are saying but there are subtleties which we should not ignore.

Whether a person comes out or not is a personal decision. If for a person his sexuality is an irrelvant part of his life and work, then indeed why should that person speak about it.

But we should not ignore/forget the subtle difference between
A&#62; considering a topic irrelavant
B&#62; going to lenghts and trying hard to maintain the tacit assumption of heterosexuality either by fabricating stories, or by making true statements which carry zero information.
A. and B. are not equivalent.

Let me give an example: Consider a person who self-identifies with some category X, which is not sexuality.
At a family dinner of colleagues that guy takes care not to bring his boyfriend (after all, bringing him to the party out of the blue would at best feel odd).
Say, further, when quizzed about relationships (as often happens when bosses/colleagues get chummy and all), the person feels compelled to find responses that would maintain the heterosexuality assumption.
Would you still say that the person is so absorbed in X that sexuality is not an issue?

If something is irrelvant, then a person would be careless about it. One need not wear his sexuality on his sleeve, but then one need not tear out the sleeve either if it gets a pink stain, especially if he claims it is irrelevant.

Maybe I am wrong, but most gay men who have told me that sexuality is not an issue for them, follow that by decent effort at hiding it from their family/colleagues. The effort of hiding, in my humble opinion, can at best be attributed to some level of discomfort with sexuality.

I do not grudge them that discomfort. Heck, a greater percentage of us, be gay or straight, are somewhere in-between in our journey of sexual identity development. Different levels of discomfort with different aspects of sexuality (be it one's own or of another) is a a natural component of that process. But I would rather label my discomfort as discomfort than garb it in crafty rational. Having said that, I am no one to preach, but then my post was originally meant for an open forum where everyone was putting forth their views.

As for speaking up against homophobia, that is a slightly different matter (though it is also affected by what stage of sexual identity development a person is at). Yes, it is a matter of human rights as you mention. But that is hardly in contradiction to what I was saying.
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hey Amlan, I agree with the spirit of what you are saying but there are subtleties which we should not ignore.</p>
<p>Whether a person comes out or not is a personal decision. If for a person his sexuality is an irrelvant part of his life and work, then indeed why should that person speak about it.</p>
<p>But we should not ignore/forget the subtle difference between<br />
A&gt; considering a topic irrelavant<br />
B&gt; going to lenghts and trying hard to maintain the tacit assumption of heterosexuality either by fabricating stories, or by making true statements which carry zero information.<br />
A. and B. are not equivalent.</p>
<p>Let me give an example: Consider a person who self-identifies with some category X, which is not sexuality.<br />
At a family dinner of colleagues that guy takes care not to bring his boyfriend (after all, bringing him to the party out of the blue would at best feel odd).<br />
Say, further, when quizzed about relationships (as often happens when bosses/colleagues get chummy and all), the person feels compelled to find responses that would maintain the heterosexuality assumption.<br />
Would you still say that the person is so absorbed in X that sexuality is not an issue?</p>
<p>If something is irrelvant, then a person would be careless about it. One need not wear his sexuality on his sleeve, but then one need not tear out the sleeve either if it gets a pink stain, especially if he claims it is irrelevant.</p>
<p>Maybe I am wrong, but most gay men who have told me that sexuality is not an issue for them, follow that by decent effort at hiding it from their family/colleagues. The effort of hiding, in my humble opinion, can at best be attributed to some level of discomfort with sexuality.</p>
<p>I do not grudge them that discomfort. Heck, a greater percentage of us, be gay or straight, are somewhere in-between in our journey of sexual identity development. Different levels of discomfort with different aspects of sexuality (be it one&#8217;s own or of another) is a a natural component of that process. But I would rather label my discomfort as discomfort than garb it in crafty rational. Having said that, I am no one to preach, but then my post was originally meant for an open forum where everyone was putting forth their views.</p>
<p>As for speaking up against homophobia, that is a slightly different matter (though it is also affected by what stage of sexual identity development a person is at). Yes, it is a matter of human rights as you mention. But that is hardly in contradiction to what I was saying.</p>
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		<title>By: Amlan</title>
		<link>http://glorifiedevil.blog.friendster.com/2005/08/come-out-come-out-wherever-you-are/#comment-20</link>
		<dc:creator>Amlan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 04 Sep 2005 03:59:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://glorifiedevil.blog.friendster.com/2005/08/come-out-come-out-wherever-you-are/#comment-20</guid>
		<description>Let me see now! Ayush one sound thing you said was that you cannot segregate life into "gay" and "straight" and that you have to be honest about your identity. In a previous post you have emphasized on an individual being able to "self identify". Heres a question for you. What happens if a gay man "self identifies" with some category X where sexuality is not the driving factor. Yet X is what drives him. Then clearly as time passes, whether he is gay or not becomes mostly irrelevant and declaring it out of the blue could at best feel odd. None of that implies that he is not for equal civil rights or that when faced with homophobia he will not speak up(as should anybody in their right senses). As I have mentioned in my post before, I reiterate, the issue is not that of gay rights... its one of human rights and therefore everybody absolutely must come out as human. Then all the majority minority lines are gone and the onus is on one and all.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Let me see now! Ayush one sound thing you said was that you cannot segregate life into &#8220;gay&#8221; and &#8220;straight&#8221; and that you have to be honest about your identity. In a previous post you have emphasized on an individual being able to &#8220;self identify&#8221;. Heres a question for you. What happens if a gay man &#8220;self identifies&#8221; with some category X where sexuality is not the driving factor. Yet X is what drives him. Then clearly as time passes, whether he is gay or not becomes mostly irrelevant and declaring it out of the blue could at best feel odd. None of that implies that he is not for equal civil rights or that when faced with homophobia he will not speak up(as should anybody in their right senses). As I have mentioned in my post before, I reiterate, the issue is not that of gay rights&#8230; its one of human rights and therefore everybody absolutely must come out as human. Then all the majority minority lines are gone and the onus is on one and all.</p>
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		<title>By: Ayush</title>
		<link>http://glorifiedevil.blog.friendster.com/2005/08/come-out-come-out-wherever-you-are/#comment-19</link>
		<dc:creator>Ayush</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Aug 2005 18:59:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://glorifiedevil.blog.friendster.com/2005/08/come-out-come-out-wherever-you-are/#comment-19</guid>
		<description>I could not agree more with you Pal. I never intended to chastise those who are not coming out. That was not the intention, though on second thoughts my posting could be percieved as such. I can understand that personal reasons, situations, financial-independence constraints and such like can hold back a person from coming out. If these personal reasons are stated, I have nothing to say.

My arguments were against some of the other rationals that people would give not to come out. For example the rational that since my straight friend does not have to say that he is heterosexual, I too do not need to say it. That there is a real difference in the two situations is what I wanted to point out.

Also, the feeling that how is anyone else affected by one's coming out? ... the fact is that each person coming out IS making a real difference, maybe indirect, in the lives of many others who are still struggling in the closet.

In spite of all the benefits of coming out, it is an intensely personal decision and is best made not in haste bit with proper thought and deliberation. I am not to judge those who are in the closet, but if BS arguments are put forward as shields that is something that I don't really need to entertain, right?
My argument was more against "There is no real need to come out, though one could if they wished"
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I could not agree more with you Pal. I never intended to chastise those who are not coming out. That was not the intention, though on second thoughts my posting could be percieved as such. I can understand that personal reasons, situations, financial-independence constraints and such like can hold back a person from coming out. If these personal reasons are stated, I have nothing to say.</p>
<p>My arguments were against some of the other rationals that people would give not to come out. For example the rational that since my straight friend does not have to say that he is heterosexual, I too do not need to say it. That there is a real difference in the two situations is what I wanted to point out.</p>
<p>Also, the feeling that how is anyone else affected by one&#8217;s coming out? &#8230; the fact is that each person coming out IS making a real difference, maybe indirect, in the lives of many others who are still struggling in the closet.</p>
<p>In spite of all the benefits of coming out, it is an intensely personal decision and is best made not in haste bit with proper thought and deliberation. I am not to judge those who are in the closet, but if BS arguments are put forward as shields that is something that I don&#8217;t really need to entertain, right?<br />
My argument was more against &#8220;There is no real need to come out, though one could if they wished&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Subhamoy</title>
		<link>http://glorifiedevil.blog.friendster.com/2005/08/come-out-come-out-wherever-you-are/#comment-18</link>
		<dc:creator>Subhamoy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Aug 2005 17:10:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://glorifiedevil.blog.friendster.com/2005/08/come-out-come-out-wherever-you-are/#comment-18</guid>
		<description>Hey Ayush,

I agree with all the positive repercussions that coming out can have on society as a whole, and the increased honesty in your personal life.  But you can't make people feel guilty that they are not joining the bandwagon.

Coming out remains a painfully personal choice.  One does it for oneself, and those that one cares about.  Not for social benefit. Your basic argument that coming out is the best course of action is a sound one. . .not coming out involves living a lie, and possibly hurting more people in the long run.  But in most individual instances, this choice may not be as cut and dried as you put it.  The consequences of coming out involve balancing pros and cons. . .a balancing act that the individual has to do after much soul searching.    And live with its consequences.  To trivialize this balancing choice is to call all those who haven't come out, fools.  I don't think that's what you mean.

Minorities speaking out has been the basis for many a civil rights movement.  And that is a beautiful thing.  Apparently only 1 in 10 Indians spoke out or did anything against British rule. . . the remaining 90% were fairly content with the way things were.  Thank God that 10% did speak out.  They helped create a free and wonderful country.  But the remaining 90% were just trying to lead a decent life, stay out of trouble.  It's not heroic. . .but it is okay.

I guess my point is. . .that there isn't a "should" here.  Like "You should come out."  There are certainly a lot of good reasons why you should come out. . .and your post mentions many of them.  But should people choose to blend in. . . let them.  To any action there are consequences. . .winners and losers.  And all I am saying is respect people's choices. . .no matter how stupid they may sound.  It is a human right to make these (sometimes stupid) decisions.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hey Ayush,</p>
<p>I agree with all the positive repercussions that coming out can have on society as a whole, and the increased honesty in your personal life.  But you can&#8217;t make people feel guilty that they are not joining the bandwagon.</p>
<p>Coming out remains a painfully personal choice.  One does it for oneself, and those that one cares about.  Not for social benefit. Your basic argument that coming out is the best course of action is a sound one. . .not coming out involves living a lie, and possibly hurting more people in the long run.  But in most individual instances, this choice may not be as cut and dried as you put it.  The consequences of coming out involve balancing pros and cons. . .a balancing act that the individual has to do after much soul searching.    And live with its consequences.  To trivialize this balancing choice is to call all those who haven&#8217;t come out, fools.  I don&#8217;t think that&#8217;s what you mean.</p>
<p>Minorities speaking out has been the basis for many a civil rights movement.  And that is a beautiful thing.  Apparently only 1 in 10 Indians spoke out or did anything against British rule. . . the remaining 90% were fairly content with the way things were.  Thank God that 10% did speak out.  They helped create a free and wonderful country.  But the remaining 90% were just trying to lead a decent life, stay out of trouble.  It&#8217;s not heroic. . .but it is okay.</p>
<p>I guess my point is. . .that there isn&#8217;t a &#8220;should&#8221; here.  Like &#8220;You should come out.&#8221;  There are certainly a lot of good reasons why you should come out. . .and your post mentions many of them.  But should people choose to blend in. . . let them.  To any action there are consequences. . .winners and losers.  And all I am saying is respect people&#8217;s choices. . .no matter how stupid they may sound.  It is a human right to make these (sometimes stupid) decisions.</p>
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